The Hunter&The "hunt-ee"
Thanks to our "Great" president these Britons felt humiliation as we did when their government toppled down Mohammed Mossadegh's fresh,blossomed government in 1953.If you aren’t afraid of the Gospel Truth and would be thrilled to get to know the tit for tat story click Here
Labels: Britons, Humiliation
posted by Frank at
5:14 AM
9 Comments:
I remember my father always suggesting us (his children),"stay away as far as you can from politic affairs".
there is always a story beneath another one and the chain goes so endlessley. I never figured why though.
Funny enough , those students of truth, can find the actual data pertaining to Operation Ajax around the web, in .pdf. Anyone interested, in that part of history, just give a holler, and the links will be put on this site for you perusal.
Nevertheless, Mosadegh despite his intelligent acumen fell for the punch and judy act of US, UK. He thought he could rely on the Americans for help, in effect leaving himself vulnerable, and wide open to ouster. If Mosadegh had been clever enough to follow in the foot steps of Tito without the brutality and suppression, in all probability Iran of today would have been a different Iran.
However, at least Iranians are trying to maintain their independence, and non aligned status, which is a good start for any nation, As oppose to the sock-puppet vassals whom are running the countries in the neighbourhood, for the benefit of their Western masters. While building artificial islands, without any thoughts that the money spent on shovelling sand, evidently could be better spent on educating, or providing a decent health care in these countries. The same countries, that are apparently beacons of stability in the area!!!!!! So the US, UK keep telling us all.
mariamusic,
During the years of Shah Iran boasted the most efficient domestic intelligence agency, a pernicious, pervasive organisation built under the tutelage of US, and Israel, and called SAVAK. This organisation could only be rivalled by Stasi the east German domestic intelligence agency. Hence the notions of your father insisting on keeping away from politics.
Passing guy
It is not appropriate for the entire Iranian cabinet and the president to accompany 15 ordinary men and women to display their release.
In that fact alone, reality comes unbidden to the intelligent mind which instructs us in complete absence of facts where the guilt actually lies.
Suffice to say I find your ability to loosely join up the dots to incidents which occured in 1953 to a few weeks ago a bit disconcerting to find in the mind of one responsible for the enlightenment of youth.
But over and above the puppet shows Iranians are regularly treated to by the Iranian political machine, we are concerned for the realpolitik of Iran that can treat one of the prime assest of their country, the Teachers and their Students, impoverished in all senses of the word to deliver examples of equality and justice with open violence and aggression set against them.
Having pride in constructing lessons of shame and humiliation, need it be reinforced here?
Perhaps we're all merely products of our culture after all, but what excuse to not break those bonds in our life time, if not for ourselves, but for others in our care?
Hate?
Resentment?
Fear?
So easy is it to see the spirit of the times inside the mind of the liberal few Iranians who make their voices known, and yet what the world see's.... concerns it.
anon 5:19 PM,
Digressing from the thrust of the debate, introducing baseless assumptions; to begin with, prey tell where were the entire cabinet? As alluded to in the posting? That is notwithstanding the elitist remarks with respect to the inappropriate presence of ordinary men and women, which itself can be debated at length, however the clincher is found in the 'where the guilt lies?' a kind of pre-emptive strike in case of; 'the president pardoning the guilty, was personally assuring these of their freedom'. Although, the attempt is to concurrently allude to the trumped up detention of these detainees.
Needless to point out that the same detained marine lieutenant, is on record in the interview that he gives about his mission in gathering intelligence on Iranians, which is subsequently broadcasted on Sky News. Further the fake maps produced by the UK authorities (an Admiral no less, if the case is weak then pull out the big guns) devoid of any datum, and or reference and sporting a great area marked with dashed lines, as Iraqi waters, which were proclaimed as 'our waters' ie the British waters (Freudian slip denoting ye Olde imperial aspirations) in the face of the screen grabs provided by Iranians, that included, headings, time stamped geographic coordinates, along with the relevant bathymetric profiles, and datum, which evidently is summarily discounted, nay dismissed, clearly pointing to who the belligerents are?!
However, the poster, not satiated with the attacks based on conjecture, and baseless assumptions, changing the thrust of the argument takes positions on to the high grounds, while dishing out disdain and indignation about loosely connecting the dots, and drawing flimsy conclusions for the benefit of the youth whom are undergoing training.
Considering the cataclysmic affect of Kermit (not the frog) Roosevelt's shenanigans under the tutelage of Dulles Bros. and based on the planing of Dr. N. Wilber whose heavily censored accounts were outlined in his book published in 1986, not forgetting the Norman Schwarzkop Snr. and his role. Has been the subject of much debate, that leaves very little room for any dangers of loose connections.
These further highlighting the brigantine, piracy, and privateering that is pushed as free market doctrines, sugar coated with the pipe dreams of an equitable and just society, built upon democratic values.
Hogwash, seeing as in evidence, the narrow, and obtuse interpretations of democratic society has been reduced to institutions that translates to affording the plebeians a chance to participate in marking a piece of paper, foisted as a ballot, in an effort to vote out an incumbent bunch of scoundrels, in the blind hopes that the newly elected set of replacement politicians will do a better job. That is if the hanging chads, do not get in the way, and or electronic machinery do not perform miracles turning the loser of the competition under-way into the winner of the same.
However, having shaken some sense, then the poster proceeds to patronising the teachers and students alike, condemning the political puppet show in Iran, as well as citing the lack of safety faced by these, whom languishing in impoverishment, are left to face the harsh realities.
Lest we forget that, this very day fifty students have been subject to gunshot wounds, with thirty three of the poor souls losing their lives, in Virginia Tech. a regular affair in the US school life, evidently, coupled with students getting interrogated by FBI agents, without any adult accompaniment, for having committed heinous crimes in wearing T shirts, denoting derisory notations about the POTUS, and or writing essays questioning the validity of Iraq war. On the other hand the three year old boys getting booted out of the kindergarten for having sexually assaulted the teacher's aide, not forgetting police Tazzing an unruly eight year old girl, and or arresting another six year old for being out of control, taking her to the local nick, without so much as notifying her guardian.
That is not even entertaining the luminaries of the air waves, and media such as Ann Coulter, O'Reilly, Blitzer, et al. whose craven fawning have effectively emboldened the neo-con Billy Kristol to boast in his neo-con rag; 'President Bush has near enough to dictatorial powers'.
Finally the Liberal Few Iranians are buttered up, for their blind acceptance of the cultural hegemony so pervasively distributed around the globe by the Hollywood, a pernicious arm of the 'mini info'.
Very true, there only exist a handful few 'Liberals' by the 'Western' standards, that are to be found in Iran, for Iranian Liberals unlike their western counterparts do not seek freedom in; 'freedom is to do bad things as well as good things' (as Rummy pontificated), and or the amount of flesh on display by the females, and males alike, and or relentless mandatory pursuit of 'happiness' that is found in the drive-in of the nearest hamburger joint, acquisition and munching of the same, that is washed down with copious amounts of beer, and then if 'lucky' engage in thirty seconds of bumbling, sweaty conjugation, calling it a good day!
Nonetheless, that is why east is east, and west is west, and you are right we are the products of our cultures, to be so sanctimonious, and so mistrustful of all things alive is a hallmark of being from West, hence the tin touch, and the death and destruction that is under way practically around the globe, with the US forces daily using as much fuel as the whole of the Greece.
Finally, out of curiosity, What does it feel to be so right? can you explain this facet to us all?
The last time we Iranians attacked anywhere it was three hundred and fifty years ago, you see our ancient culture proscribes the unleashing of the animal instincts declaring these as measures of freedom!! While promoting, logic, humanity, and above all respect for all things living.
Passing guy
Finally, out of curiosity, What does it feel to be so right? can you explain this facet to us all?
Easily Sirah. One has served under 4 separate UN Mandates, so one is privy to certain facts that I won't be pressed on.
With regards your claim 'Fake Maps', which if you will forgive me this time I will use to summarise you whole point until I can study the detail further, I will detail you the area of operation:
CTF158 has responsibility for international water/air space north of 29°N below 2,500 ft and Iraqi TTW to buoy 36 in the Khor Abd Allah (KAA) and to the mouth of the Shatt al Arab (SAA).
* Additional CTF 158 battlespace includes international waters west of 29°00’N 049°30’E & 28°25’N 049°30’E
With regards to the GPS device displayed on the TV by one of your senior military, I trust you are aware that it was plotted in real time during the broadcast to an accuracy of +/- 3 meters with no satellite clock errors?
I'm not going to enter into a lengthy debate on territorial baseline markers, but one would certainly like to offer up to you the small contemplation.
British female personnel serve in a support capacity only in the armed forces, and have done since the Second World War. They will not be included in any classification of operation which would send them on border incursions.
It's just not done old bean, and I would like to believe that the presence of a Female in the party taken into Iran would cut to the chase of the very issue for many forthright and insightful Iranians.
Alas, one can but hope.
A questioning note, if I may with regards your assertion that, "The last time we Iranians attacked anywhere it was three hundred and fifty years ago".
I've heard that broadcast by a number of Iranian spokesmen. One wonders what how their commentary would adapt to the presentation of the following (which if you'll forgive is merely a high level subset).
I shall leave you in contemplation on the nature of Peace.
Portuguese capture of Hormuz
Uzbeks conquered Herat, Khorasan
Safavids conquered Diyarbakir, Baghdad, Iraq
Safavids conquered Herat, Khorasan from Uzbeks
Safavid defeat at hands of Ottomans in Battle of Chaldiran; loss of territory in E. Anatolia
Repulsion of 5 Uzbek invasions into Khorasan
Ottoman-Persian War; Baghdad conquered by Ottomans in 1534, Basra in 1546
Safavid conquest of Qandahar, from Mughal Empire
Ottoman-Persian War; Ottoman conquest of Azerbaijan
Rebels ousted Shah Muhammad Khudabanda, enthroned his son Abbas
Qandahar lost to Mughal Empire
Victory over Uzbeks; Herat regained
Ottoman-Persian War, loss of Azerbaijan, Caucasus area to Persians
Ottoman-Persian War
Safavids took Hormuz from Portuguese
Qandahar gained from Mughal Empire
Ottoman-Persian War
Qandahar lost to Mughal Empire
Qandahar regained from Mughal Empire
Qandahar lost to the Ghilzay Afghans
Afghan conquest of Isfahan; Safavid Dynasty terminated
Russian invasion
Ottoman-Persian War; Ottoman occupation of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Shirvan
Expulsion of the Afghans and reunification of Persia by Nadir Shah
Ottoman-Persian War; Azerbaijan lost to Persia
Persian Occupation of Oman
Invasion of Afghanistan, Punjab, sack of Delhi
Expedition against the Uzbeks
Anti-Persian rebellions in Azerbaijan
Ottoman-Persian War
Wars between Azeri Khanates
Bukhara seceded from Persian Empire
Persian force conquered Fort Mosselstein on Kharg Island from the V.O.C.
Ottoman-Persian War; temporary Persian occupation of Basra
Persian invasion of Qatar
Qajar army invaded Azerbaijan
Russian Army invaded Azerbaijan; withdrew upon death of Catherine II.
Qajars defeated, terminated Zand Dynasty in Iran, Afshar Dynasty in Khorasan
Qajar army invaded Azerbaijan
War with Russia
Afghan-Persian War
Ottoman-Persian War
War with Russia
War with Afghanistan
Persian occupation of Herat, followed by a British invasion of southern Iran
Herat lost to Afghanistan
Anti-Baha'i Riots in Isfahan, Yazd
Persian Revolution
Persian Civil War
Russian Occupation of Tabriz
War with Russia; Russian temporary occupation of Tehran
World War I; Russia supplied through Persia.
Soviet occupation of Gilan, establishmnt of Soviet Republic of Gilan
Separatist entities (Soviet Republic of Gilan 1921; Kurdistan, Azerbaijan, Khorasan) suppressed
Coup d'Etat
Arab rebellion in Khuzistan
Kurdish rebellion
During World War II Anglo-Soviet occupation
Revolt in Azerbaijan
Brief Kurdish secession
Coup d'Etat
Anti-Reform Riots
Clashes on Iraqi border
Iran occupied islands n Persian Gulf, claimed by UAE
Iran supported Sultan of Oman against Dhofar Rebels
Islamic Revolution
anon 3:40 PM
Starting with 4 mandates of the UN, as you know it, and I know it, UN is an old boys club come talking shop, mostly looking after the interests of US, and co. much to the shame of us all on this planet, and judging by the miserable history of UN, and the litany of Vetoes that have stopped any probable improvement, in equity, and justice among nations. In effect arresting the process of evolution of a much needed international system, of checks and balances, a truly lost chance to date.
Hence, boasting about the mandate awarded by a bunch of elitists, somehow cuts little mustard in the face of the realities that we face to day. Although, must commend you for your contributions for the cause that you thought was right, and correct (not patronising).
You have posted the CTF, operational space, as well as Battle space. However, you have wisely decided not to contest the extent of the 'territorial baseline markers'.
Further, having explained the role of the female military personnel in the British forces, you then have concluded that the female coxswain, would not have been sent out on a mission for an incursion. Implying the wrongful arrest and detention.
This proposition proves invalid, in the view of the manpower shortages faced by the British forces, that is reflected in the secondment of these female personnel into various operations in the field in Iraq, as recent fatalities have sadly proved the case.
Further, considering the single female coxswain as the only reason for non incursion somehow cannot be considered as court admissible evidence, and ought to be treated lightly, and deservedly so.
However, the sad point being the use of these personnel by their political leadership, as cheap alternative for mercenaries, ought to be of concern to you, as it ought to be of concern to any decent human being. These men and women enlisting in the British forces with intent to defend their homelands, have now found themselves fighting a pointless war, in a far off land in a country that did not offer any kind of threat to their homeland, while finding themselves along the Black Water mercenaries, whom are on a far better pay scale than these.
Finally, you have found a list of attacks on Iran from some five hundred years ago onwards, mostly without any dates, failing to acknowledge that Iran is situated in a rough neighbourhood, and she has had to defend her integrity, and stand up for her rights time and again, surviving to date, hence the deep resentment of Iranians in initiation of any hostilities, and the three hundred and fifty years record of non aggression.
However, as a soldier you ought to appreciate that non aggression does not mean rolling over and letting those enemies with dark intent to get away with their nefarious designs on our homelands. Hence the vigilance, and sensitivity to any aggressive action from without our borders.
Fair commentary stands by itself.
It's easier to describe those details overseas under the umbrella of the UN, one IS a gentlemen after all.
I won't contest the baseline markers, they are written down in the Islamic Revolution's works are they not?
The contesting is done directly by far greater men than you or I inside Iran, many who tend to their nations welfare from behind bars.
With regards to Basra and the recent tragedy you allude to, one need not remind that there are no 'no-go' area inside Basra.
2nd battalions of the Rifles and Lancesters combined delivered that message last Thursday.
The thin pretext around non aggression from Iran doesn't stand on the ground in the region I'm afraid. Sticking our heads out of the Window(tm) occasionally and just asking see's to that.Thus I see not how in adding the dates to the holistic list presented above that it would brighten your horizons further; unless you intend to study that detail at length for sentiments sakes? One presumes you can reach all the available sources yourself.
History bares out the expansionist reality of nations, Including Iran's, And it's simply somewhat blinkered to suggest that Iran has not it's hand directly in violence throughout the region (with or without our presence).
A state within a state now exists, and Iran bleeds itself daily. We'll be on constant standby no matter where we find our self stationed, though home's always nice from time to time. It is just a luxury however, given the constant UN calls ups it's just a question of what colour to paint the wagons.
Don't misunderstand us, we are the professionals.
anon,
Old timer, you ought to exercise caution, when throwing around charges of 'state within a state', and or those 'from behind the bars', and or the 'head out of the window', these cliché only serve to weaken your stature.
As a professional, you ought to appreciate, the constant harangues of the warmongers, verbally assailing Iran, while the whole region is bristling with hardware, these cannot be taken as benign given the crazy adventurism of the few, whom have brought about the new world disorder, and are yet to be facing any audit of their actions, accounting for their mistaken and aggressive views.
Nuremberg trials put in place one precedence worth the blood price of the WWII, and that has been setting out the crimes against peace, as the most heinous among crimes, prescribing the most sever punishment for those guilty of having committed this particularly vicious crime.
The disdain in your posting about the 'baseline markers' is not an acceptable position for a guttersnipe never mind a gentleman, however for the sake of shedding some light on the subject, the Algiers Accord of 1975 that was to be renegotiated every ten years between Iran and her neighbour Iraq, clearly has not been subject to any further agreements, and in the current climate of regional tensions, the disputed waters ought to be given a wide birth, coupled with full observation of additional protocols of maritime safety, as per the water ways safety conventions, ie. UK forces should not prove to be any hindrance to the Iranian coastguards, whom are busy policing a busy water way, carrying all manner of maritime traffic including fully laden tankers.
These busy waters are not a little pool in which ten year olds are playing with pedalos, these are seriously dangerous waters, that need to be kept free for the timely and efficient flow of traffic, while enforcing inspections, and ensuring lawful conduct, of the business, as well as stopping any criminals from engaging in any unlawful activities.
Finally, you seem to digress from the points of debate, mixing Iraq, UN, while skirting around the issue that currently UK forces are used as low paid mercenaries, patently devoid of any illusions of professionalism, which you then conclude in hanging around with your paint spray can in hand awaiting the orders, to bark out the colours which the wagons are to be painted in.
Perhaps you ought to step out of the painting booth, and clearing out your head from the paint fumes, take a good look; the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan are not exactly won, and are highly unlikely to be won either. There is the school of scorched earth policy, but as you know that theory has already been tried, and as we have seen, has been a failure too!
Few splutters of musketry no longer win the day, and force projection in the era of fourth generation wars, is akin to the formations of the first and second world wars, in reality wars have outlived their usefulness, have you taken any note of the value of the dollar lately?
Self Suffering tones issued from your Ivory Tower.
Such a lowbrow setting to address this issue. A thin veneer with which to espy the anti-west, anto-neo-con, anti-american, anti-british, anti-semetic, anti-capitalism, anti-democracy... call it what you will when the mood takes you, others would just single it as overly antipathetic about all.
The last time states at play used this water with the ominous undertones your suggest, the smallest was set upon, while two others were turned into the killing fields.
Drunken from the Poison from Chalice, and once again a Train with no Brake or Reverse Gears. These are their words not those of the World's. I'm sure you'd and many others would enjoy all obstacles removed from that path, nothing to smash into on the way to Destiny.
But that's never going to happen now is it, for all the reasons stated above.
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